Prius (Gen 2) :: Surging While Accelerating When Entering The Highway
Jan 4, 2014
We have owned our 07' since it was new and have performed regular maintenance per the owners manual. We are at 105,000 miles and I've noticed a subtle surging sensation when entering the highway with my foot flat on the accelerator.
Looking at the MFD, I see both the engine and motor supplying power continuously during the surging sensation. When this occurs, the batteries are never "low". They always show 5-8 bars of charge. I tuned the car with factory plugs, air filter and PCV valve, but that did not work. The sensation only seems to occur at wide open throttle and is undetectable at lower acceleration or at standard highway speeds. I'm happy to ignore the issue, but am curious what might be going on...
Just reading up on Optima Yellow Top batteries and issues for Prius owners. We installed one about two years ago. Doing some of the tests mentioned online, like engine in run position, but not running yields a battery voltage of 11.9. Out of spec, I think. Engine running = 14.1v.
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After changing out my tensioner on my 6.0 but not directly about 24 hours later I started getting a surge/power/smoking problem after accelerating. Seems to be no problem at idle. Last night driving from Nj to SC it seemed to do it after I stopped to pee. If I could get it back to 60-65 mph it would run fine but accelerating to there was rough. I change my ebp sensor and thought that solved it but it came back. Unfortunately I couldn't get the sensing line off so that wasn't cleaned.
Unplugged the egr and thought that did it but it ended doing it again. When looking at the dashboss it looks like exhaust pressure goes up and boost goes to zero. What would cause the guide vanes to close is that a defuel or is that just the result of another sensor. It's a late 04 build with ipc on valve cover and ebp sensor at front of engine. Also it seems to happen at higher speeds. Going up and down hills at 75 or even 70 it seemed to do it often. I ran 60-65 between pee stops for hours without a hiccup..
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I have an 04 Elantra GT and have been noticing a jerkiness when driving at a constant speed on the highway. I haven't noticed it around town or while accelerating. I also have noticed that when I disengage the clutch on the highway, the engine sometimes doesn't respond right away, or it even may surge. This has happened when exiting the highway when I disengage the clutch. The engine will slow, then speed up close to 3000 rpms.
I also had a check engine light come on and couple months ago. The code indicated that the upstream O2 sensor was bad. I took it out and cleaned it, but didn't replace it. Is this a likely culprit for this set of symptoms? If so, how can I test the sensor to be sure? I heard that I could disconnect it and run the car and see if the surging lessens, but wasn't sure if that was a good thing to do.
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A few weeks ago i had a surging idle issue very intermittently, and it went away for a while so i stopped thinking about it. Just got back from a weekend in vermont, about 130 miles each way, and i noticed as soon as i got to vermont and came to a stop sign it was surging, and when i just got home it was surging again. Why would this have picked back up after long stretches of running for a while? Runs great as far as i know, just have this surging idle for some reason.
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1995 3.0L 6 Cylinder Aero, aka the Green Goblin.
I've recently noticed that when I'm running between 50-65MPH the GG can't seem to decide whether it wants to stay in D or OD, I think. It's hard to tell whether or not the transmission is shifting or if it's just the engine revving. I don't have a tachometer but it's almost like the engine is revving /surges and then falls back, sometimes repeatedly. Could this be due to a vac line leak?
History- GG has 167K on it. I recently changed the oil, plugs, wires, distributor and air filter. Cleaned the MAF. Due to a failed AC compressor and low funds, had it removed and a bypass pulley installed. Needs a new pipe & muffler which is on the agenda.
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I have a 2003 toyota tacoma 4x4 with the 3.4l engine. Recently I have noticed that while accelerating I am losing power. I first noticed it would surge while going slowly uphill and since it has started happening all the time. I especially notice a serious dip in power during freeway acceleration at around 3000 rpm. The truck has 100000 miles on it. I have changed the plugs, run injector cleaner (the stuff you buy at the gas station), cleaned the throttle body, changed the air filter, and cleaned the mass airflow sensor. I have played a little with the throttle position sensor and that seems to have some affect on the timing of the surge but it is hard to tell. Of course toyota doesn't service the TPS for that year but rather try to sell you a new throttle body $1100.00!!! Could this be the catalytic converter or maybe a faulty injector? Also, I have not changed the timing belt yet.
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The primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank of my 2004 W12 failed last month, shortly after I had set out on a cross-Canada trip from Vancouver Island to Toronto. The whole process of diagnosing and identifying the cause of the problem, mitigating it so that I could continue the trip, and finally replacing the fuel pump was kind of complex, so, here's the write-up.
The problem presented itself as a surging of the engine - a momentary loss of power - at normal highway operating speeds. The onset was progressive, but it didn't take very long - only about 60 miles of driving - from the first little cough of the engine until total failure of the pump. The first indication was failure of the car to maintain speed (while on cruise control) when climbing hills. That progressed to failure to maintain speed on flat surfaces, and finally led to the car coasting to a stop, engine stalled, at the side of the road.
I soon learned that if I floored the accelerator pedal and held it against the floor, the car would cough and burp for a few seconds, then take off like a rocket. So, for the next 40 miles, I coaxed the car into the next city by flooring it, accelerating to about 80 MPH, then coasting until the speed dropped to 20 MPH, and flooring it once again and accelerating to 80 MPH. Fortunately, I was on a remote road with few other cars, and no police.
I checked the fuses for the two fuel pumps - fuses 34 and 35 in panel C (above the left battery), and they were both OK.
The next day, I visited a VW dealer in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, and together with the parts manager and one of the technicians, we looked at the Self-Study Guides (SSGs) for the Phaeton, and looked at wiring diagrams. Eventually, we came to a tentative conclusion that the primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank had failed. The SSGs stated that the primary electric fuel pump (the pump on the right side of the car) operates all the time, and the secondary electric fuel pump (the pump on the left side of the car) only operates during starting and during 'periods of high demand'. That made sense to us - the car started fine, and worked OK when the accelerator pedal was held to the floor (high demand). It just didn't work worth a darn at any other time... the engine would stall, or, the car would not accelerate at all.
Here are two illustrations taken from the SSGs that describe how the fuel delivery system works. The first image is taken from the 'Phaeton Overview' SSG, which applies to all vehicles. The second image is taken from the W12 engine SSG. I kind of suspect that all the Phaetons operate in the same way, regardless of engine, because the fuel tank in all the Phaetons has the same shape - two lower lobes, which means two pumps are required.
Descriptions from the SSGs
I think that there may be an error in the description above. My experience suggests that the right hand pump (identified as G6, above) is the primary pump, and the left hand pump (identified as G23) is the one that switches on during starting and periods of high demand. Note also how the identification of G6 and G23 in the illustration above is reversed from what is shown in the illustration below. I believe that the text and illustration below is correct, and the text and illustration above is incorrect.
The 'effects of failure' in the description above would, I believe, make sense if it was the left-hand pump that failed. In my case, the right hand pump failed, and the effects of failure that I experienced were as I set them out in the beginning paragraphs of this post - quite different from the 'effects of failure' of the left hand pump that are described in the SSG above.
After coming to the tentative diagnosis that the primary electric fuel pump (the right hand pump) had failed, we checked the parts stock status in North America. There was one pump in stock, but it was in the United States, and being that it was a Thursday, the pump could not be delivered before the following Tuesday. I didn't want to spend that much time waiting for it, so, we started thinking about other possible solutions.
If we could somehow get the secondary electric fuel pump - the pump on the left side of the car that only operated during starting and heavy demand - to operate, that just might put me back on the road again. So, I removed the plastic cover from the small relay that operates the secondary pump, and wrapped a rubber band around the relay, thus keeping the relay in the closed position. A short test drive proved that this solution worked just fine, the car once again operated normally. The only "problem" was that the last 25% of the fuel in the tank would be unusable, because that fuel would be left behind in the right-hand lobe of the tank - the lobe with the defective primary fuel pump.
Electric Fuel Pump Relays
Here is an illustration from the Phaeton wiring diagrams identifying the various relays above the left battery.
Here you can see the two relays for the electric fuel pumps. They are identical part numbers.
Here you can see the relay for the secondary electric fuel pump, with a rubber band wrapped around it to keep it continually closed.
Aside from the loss of use of the last 25% of the fuel in the fuel tank, the car worked just fine with the secondary electric fuel pump running all the time. There were no problems noted even under heavy acceleration. It was, however, necessary to physically remove the rubber-banded relay from its position in the relay panel whenever the car was shut down for more than half a hour. The power to this relay comes from Terminal 30 (battery direct) - it is not switched on and off with the ignition as Terminal 15 power is. This meant that if the rubber-banded relay was left in position overnight, the left hand battery would totally discharge, because the fuel pump would operate continuously all night. I discovered this the morning after the first night...
So, for the next 8 days, I drove across Canada, removing the relay each night and replacing it each morning. I didn't bother to remove it when I stopped for meals or fuel. The rest of the 3,000 mile trip was uneventful - except once, when I let the fuel tank run down a bit too close to the 1/4 full mark, and the car began surging again because the left hand lobe of the fuel tank (with the functional secondary pump) had emptied out. That was a close call, but I managed to get to a gas station and refuel.
After arriving in Toronto, I called the parts staff at my home VW dealer and ordered a new primary electric fuel pump. I discovered that the left and right hand pumps are slightly different (the various hoses coming out of the pumps are different), and I also discovered that a pump costs about $400. The parts staff suggested I order two seals (one for each side of the tank), because I would have to remove both the right and left fuel tank covers to change the right pump. The seals were not expensive.
Here are two pictures that illustrate where the pumps sit in each lobe of the fuel tank. Note the fuel filler port on the left side of the pictures (as we know, it is on the right side of the car) for orientation.
Phaeton Fuel Tank, showing pumps
Fuel Pump Access Panels
Below is a picture that shows where the access panels to the two fuel pumps are. It's easy to get to these access panels, just remove the carpeted panel from the floor of the trunk.
Here's a close-up of the right side (primary) electric fuel pump access panel.
The instructions (from the VW Repair Manual, or the ELSA / ErWin system) for replacing the fuel pump are quite well written. The repair manual suggests that the fuel tank be drained before replacing a pump. I didn't want to drain the tank, so, I ran the fuel level down as low as I dared (remembering that 1/4 full is effectively 'empty' with a failed primary pump). That proved to be adequate.
There are a heck of a lot of steps involved in disconnecting all the hoses and loosening the various components before the pump can be removed. I strongly suggest that anyone attempting this task have a printed set of instructions before starting disassembly.
The fuel pump has quite a few hoses and connections on it, but fortunately, each connector is unique in design, thus it is not possible to hook things up the wrong way when installing the new pump. It is possible to 'lose' a hose inside the tank... for this reason, I attached a small piece of string to each hose I disconnected from the pump.
The process goes more or less like this:
1) Remove the two 404 relays, to ensure no power is sent to either fuel pump.
2) Lift the rubber cover, and remove the electrical connections from both pumps (left and right).
3) Using a special tool, lift up the three fasteners that hold the cap over top of the access panel (these are NOT threaded fasteners!)
Here is a side view of the three fasteners that hold the plastic cap in place - they are friction fit, not threaded.
4) Now you have a clear view of the access panel. It will probably be dusty and rusty, and should be vacuumed clean before proceeding, to prevent crap from falling into the fuel tank when the cap is removed. The rust is due to condensation forming on the cold metal part whenever the car is filled with cold fuel from an underground storage tank.
5) A special VW tool is used to remove the locking ring from the access panel.
6) After removing the locking ring, I buffed it up with a wire brush to remove surface corrosion.
7) The plastic access cap can now be lifted. There are two electrical connectors on each fuel pump, but three possible fittings on the plastic cap. Fortunately, the three fittings are keyed differently.
8) This is what you see inside the tank after removing the plastic cap.
9) After following all the detailed instructions for disconnecting and stowing hoses, disconnecting the fuel measurement probe from the pump housing, etc., it is possible to lift the pump out. It will be full of fuel.
10) The old and new pumps, side by side. I was very surprised at the amount of crap that was trapped in the filter screen at the bottom of the pump. The car only has 60,000 miles on it, and I have always used premium fuel in it.
11) I was also a bit surprised at the discolouration of the pump components. Below you can see the old and new pumps side by side.
12) It is necessary to get access to the opposite side (in this case, the left side) fuel pump, because hoses from each pump travel horizontally across the tank and connect to the other pump.
13) Here you can see a new hose from the right side pump connecting into a T fitting above the left side pump. It is easy to thread this hose across the top of the inside of the tank.
14) As mentioned earlier, there are three possible fittings on the base of each plastic cap, but only two connectors within the fuel tank. Everything is keyed, thus improper assembly is not possible.
Once the new pump has been installed, the hoses connected, and the fuel measuring probe reset into the side of the new pump, re-assembly of everything is quite straightforward. I replaced the rubber ring around the access panel opening on each side of the tank, and I also buffed up the locking rings using a wire brush (to remove corrosion) on each side.
It was not a pleasant job - your hands get covered in fuel, and there are some hazards associated with working on an open fuel tank with vapour escaping, but it is not a particularly difficult job. It is time-consuming, though.
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I have a 45 min drive to work every day, all highway. Lately on the way home in the afternoon I have been experiencing a surging noise that seems to just happen while I'm doing hwy speeds. It sounds to me like the fan is tuning on and off. Is that possible? It comes on for a few min. And then off again. I have new icp ipr cps. New oil and filter and fuel filter.
Also I'm still having a battery light on and off issue while I'm driving. Is possible the two issues are connected. I plane on doing extensive search for a bad wire this weekend. Batteries and alternator have checked out and are fairly new.
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I've been noticing some weird, very subtle engine sound changes while driving at highway speeds lately. Something almost like surging, but not. I don't know how to describe it. I might try to make an audio recording next time I take it out so I can explain it.
Anyway, I don't know why but ICP popped into my head. Maybe, for some reason, the engine was varying ICP causing the surging sounds.
So I hooked up AE and did a test. I've attached a screen shot.
With my idle speed actuated as high as it will go, and ICP actuated as high as it can go, I can only get a pressure of about 1450 PSI. I always thought ICP should go higher than that. I seem to recall reading somewhere around 3600 PSI.
So am I misinformed, am I reading the data wrong or do I have a problem? How high should Injector Control Pressure go? I missed it in the screen shot, but ICP is actuated to 100%.
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i have a 2011 prius II, and i noticed that rain water is leaking into the engine compartment. after i look at the hood design and how it closes, it was very obvious to me that water will leak into the engine compartment by design. i found this prius V picture online (i think it is very similar if not identical to my prius II). the blue pointers indicate holes and gaps where water can leak in, and the read circle indicates where water end up.
i have owned 2 other cars before this one, and i have never had rain water leak into engine compartment. do i have to worry about this?
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I have been searching online for days trying to find out why my car is smoking. i recently broke the oil pan on my 03 vw passat 1.8T. When I broke it I didn't know what had happened and I am sure all the oil drained completely out. The turn off engine now light came on and immediately shut car off! But I am not sure if i did in time before doing any major damage. my husband replaced the oil pan with a new one and everything seemed to be running good. i drove it for about 10 days and i noticed a whitish (I am not really sure of the color cause it was in my rear view mirror and couldn't see well) smoke coming from the exhaust as i was accelerating to get on the highway lasted about maybe 5sec then stopped. it has since done it 2 more times as i am getting on the highway but not every time. There are no fluid loss doesn't overheat when driving it all the fluids are good. I thought maybe head gasket or cracked head but husband says its not. the last it did it i stopped driving it in hopes to find out why its SMOKING!!!
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I've got a 2002 Toyota Camry with 96,000 miles on it. Car has been running fine for years but on a recent 250-mile drive I noticed a whirring noise (almost like the engine of a remote-control electric car). The noise is faint, but definitely new. I'm fairly sure it's coming from the under the hood, or at least from the front half of the car. No vibrations. The noise is only audible at highway speeds, and really only present when I'm accelerating (or on cruise control). It seems to get slightly worse if the car is climbing a hill.
Some things that have been worrying me:*I left the car in a friend's driveway all summer. Could that have anything to do with it? (There were no noticeable problems when I got back, which was months ago--when I came back after two months, I simply re-connected the battery and the car started on the first try).*I had a transmission fluid change about 2K miles ago. It was at a Jiffy Lube. They "flushed" the old fluid. They claimed they used the correct Toyota brand fluid. (I've since read that flushing the old fluid can be a bad idea for older cars.) Could this have something to do with it?*I just had my snow tires put on two weeks ago (and this is the first long drive I've done with the snow tires on). The guy who changed my tires took about 2.5 hours to do the job, saying "this is only his second week." The car is steering fine, and not drifting or anything, but could that mechanic have done something to the tires that is causing this highway-speed, acceleration-only whirring noise?
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I just had four new LT E rated tires installed (balanced). Alignment is good and did not require adjustment. Tires are correct size for the vehicle. I noticed during an extended highway trip yesterday that the truck (94 K1500 Suburban) seemed to shake or rather bump slightly when I was accelerating to pass in the sixty-five to seventy-five mph range. Almost seemed like driving on a fine washboard. I looked at the balancing weights which on three of the wheels appear to be nearly the same size. Then I noticed the right front weight is obviously larger than the other three. Could this be the problem?
There's a bit of a story here. (Isn't there always?) I bought the tires from one source (whom I would never trust to do any repairs) and had a shop I deal with regularly close to home install them. The morning after the install I went to check the pressure cold and discovered that the right front tire was a standard tire while the others were the LTs which the bill showed I had paid for. So I missed this when I bought them (they threw them in the back of the truck after assuring me all four were the same) and my mechanic missed it when they were installed. Now the tires do look almost identical but the lettering on the standard tire was black both sides while the LTs were white on one side. Of course the standard tire has a lower maximum psi rating.
I went to the mechanic first and he admitted to noticing this but I guess it just didn't register with him to double check to see if it was actually a different tire before mounting it?! I should say I am having second thoughts about using this shop in future, especially after they under inflated the tires at 30psi as well. When I told him I was running 45psi he looked at me like I was from Mars but then, upon checking his Mitchell Manual he says that yes, this truck should have 45 to 65 psi. Anyway, the guys who sold me the wrong tire made good on the problem however they installed and balanced it and I'm wondering if they got this part wrong hence the vibration I'm getting at around seventy-five.
The work order from the guys who installed the tires also states I need two upper ball joints, pitman's arm and left outer tie rod and alignment (which I understand is standard when doing this job). Now I had them show me this and while I'm no mechanic I could see the play in the ball joints was extremely minimal and pitman arm almost negligible (the mechanic had a lot of trouble showing me this had any play at all and admitted he had seen much worse). The boot on the left outer CV joint is also split and missing its grease. I'm not saying the suspension is perfect but I think they are on a fishing expedition here and I am skeptical this is what is causing the vibration at high speed because I never noticed it until the new skins were applied.
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