Phaeton :: Transmission Malfunction - Surging / Jerky Intermittently?
Feb 17, 2016
Currently on a 1 week mini break, and the P has decided to play up. I have had 6 months of worry free driving before this new issue. I have posted before that the 6 speed in my P has never been the best behaved in auto, a bit slippy and jerky, at times, but also perfect shifts 60+% of the time, but I know others share this issue so not unusual - its usually ok when manually going through the gears.
Upto 110k miles now and on this journey had been about 10miles in on the motorway so fully warmed up. Had cruise on doing about 70 mph. Bascially started being very erratic and surging then dropping quite uncomfortably.
I knocked cruise off and observed that under full acceleration no issue. Under no acceleration (foot off gas) no issue. Only when keeping up with traffic, so partial gas, did the issue occur. I waiting for the next exit and pulled off, and it initially carried on even at low speeds around 30mph, then went away. Parked up. Started it up about 2 hours later fearing the worse, but had no issue since. Kicking myself as I have the laptop but forgot the VAGcom lead.
Rang my VW specialist and he said as there were no MIL lights, the only way to know whats going on is to scan the car, and if it does it again get it recovered, which will mean the end of my break. I will scan the car as soon as I get back, but concerned I could do more damage.
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Car intermittently shifts very rough and jerky. Just took on a long vacation trip and every AM when it was cold it shifted hard them smoothed out once warmed up. Got home and now it is doing it all the time. Dealer said do the trans flush...I did it and it made no difference. Is this a common problem with this model? Mileage is 39,800...not sure I want to buy this car at lease end.
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I have a 2013 ES350 with 8K miles. Since car has been new, experienced intermittent surging and uneven driving at speeds between 25-40mph. At times the RPM gauge will spike and other times RPM stays stable. It seems like it is searching for the right gear and very noticeable when it does this. I have tried different grades of gas, different driving modes. Nothing works. Problem is inconsistent but persistent.
Also, experiencing cruise control issues going up and down hills where vehicle feels like it trying slow itself down and then shifting hard to maintain speed.
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Went out this morning - which was one of the first times we've dropped to freezing since I've had the R32. Car started fine - but idling was rough - almost felt like it was surging. Rev'd it a few times, no change. Meanwhile the tach malfunction light appeared. I turned it off and then restarted. No tach light and it was idling normally.
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I have a 2004 v8 Phaeton and on my drive today I noticed that when I accelerate with moderate (or above) gas the car starts to surge, rev-ing up and down. If I accelerate slowly (Driving Ms. Daisy slowly) the car is fine. When I'm idle (at a stop light) the car is fine, no sputtering or any other strangeness but as soon as I try to accelerate past a small amount the car starts to surge again. Made through a 3 hour trip and the MIL light came on. The car has about 198K kilometers on it but has been very rock solid, this kind of just started happening.
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Yesterday I filled my V10 with diesel and as soon as I started the engine to leave the petrol station the car seemed to shudder.
I joined the traffic and passed it off intially as poor road surface. But as I joined a queue to enter the motorway I realised it was the engine!
It was sort of surging, or perhaps it's better explained by saying it was dropping, shuddering down from say 800 RPM to around 400 then picking back up again. I revved it to 1000 RPM and it seemed fine, but if I let it drop to idle is carried on leaping and jerking for about another 3 or 4 minutes.
I then entered the motorway and it responded fine and the problem has not come back so far.
What could it be? Missing on one cylinder? Is this going to be problem? Hope not
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So I've got 8400 miles on my TDI, and for quite some time now, I've been intermittently noticing the car somewhat jerky while driving. Jerky to a small extent, like the DSG can't make up it's mind as to the gear. I could be driving home at 45 or so, and I'll randomly feel a slight bump through the pedal when I'm on a flat road. I've gotten this quite a bit. Obviously I expect to feel the DSG shifting when I'm flat out gunning it, but not when I'm maintaining a speed and should hypothetically be in the same gear that entire time.
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I have a 2006 Passat that I love but it's been doing something since it was new that has finally bothered me enough to do something about it. When the automatic transmission upshifts from 1st to 2nd, it feels really jerky - I don't know how else to describe it. It's like it surges and other times feels chunky. It seems worse after the car has sat overnight or during the day at work however it still does it even after being warmed up - just not as severely.
I called my VW dealership and spoke with a service rep and he suggested allowing the car to warm up for a few minutes before driving to let the transmission fluid 'pump' or something - not exactly confidence inspiring and even if that worked, not a good solution. The good news is that it doesn't work any better after doing that so I suspect something is actually wrong and hoping they will find it before it gets worse. I have an oil change this Thursday but based on my discussion with the service manager, I don't know that I am going to get very far with them.
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So I have a 2006 Hyundai accent with 75000KM on it. I notice when it shifts from 1st to 2nd gear sometimes it will jerk. It feels almost as if it goes to neutral and then sifts, causing the whole car to jerk. It use to only do it when the car was cold (first 15 min of the day) but now it seems to be doing it all the time and getting worse. I have had the transmission fluid replaced, but it doesn't seem to work.
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So the problem is that I have a jerky downshift 3-2 and 2-1 that can be felt by everyone in the car (car pushes forward on downshift) until the car warms up. When the car is warm I can feel it slightly at times and feel a clunk when shifting down 3-2 and 2-1. On up-shifts at times the shifts are shaky from 1-2 and 2-3. I have brought this forward to my dealership as well as another one. They all performed software updates and reset the adaptive learning. However every time I got my vehicle back after this procedure I found the A/C was on full blast. So the initial drive by the tech after the reset was learning while the A/C was on. Would this be causing the weird shifting I experience while the A/C is off. I seem to notice a better shifting when the A/C is on but this may just be me trying to reason why my transmission is behaving this way. I drove other 2015 Sonata's and they have much better shifting than my car and no hard jerks on downshifts.
Both dealers have felt the downshifts and have come back and simply said "We've done all the updates and reset and learning. This may just be a normal characteristic of the car." I told them that a brand new vehicle in this day and age shouldn't be shifting poorly when compared to an older vehicle with 300,000 km (my old Honda Civic which are prone to transmission failures). They responded casually saying you can go and get a second opinion from another dealership if you like. I am furious with their responses and just left it at that. I need to know how to get this resolved and if this is indeed something I should expect from my Sonata.
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Transmission (V-6) is slow on the upshift; and jerky on the downshift. Going uphill, the transmission does not want to downshift into a lower gear unless the accelerator is heavily depressed. So, 6th gear at like 45 mph uphill, then finally downshift into 4th with jerk downshift.
As car comes to a stop, right about 2 or 3 mph, the rpm's drop from idle to about 400; sometimes once sometimes twice. It feels like it's going to stall. Have had all the software updates.
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I just bought a brand new 2013 Elantra! I love the car, but over the past week or so I have started to feel the car's transmission (auto) jerk when it shifts from 3rd to 4th gear. I feel the car hesitate somewhat when going from 3rd and then jerk into 4th gear if that makes any sense. The car has less than 1000 miles and it never did it when I first bought it. The transmission was always smooth until recently. Also, when coasting down the road I feel the car jerk forward when I give it some gas which also feels very strange to me!?
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My beloved Treg is marooned at the dealer again, having been towed there this morning. Transmission is all over the place...shifts into 5th and stays there, or extremely jerky shifts - especially downshifts. Gear position indicator is highlighted in red and no longer indicates which gear I'm in. Check engine light is on; no message in MFI...
Incidentally, it appears that the dealer and/or VWOA is starting to understand how to treat luxury vehicle buyers. Roadside assistance was very responsive and courteous. Dealer set me up with a rental from Budget...made a point to have me pick something similar to the Treg (not a POS econobox). I'm driving a Ford Exploder...a far cry from the Treg, but at least it's an SUV and has similar seating and hauling capacity.
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So I recently purchased a 2007 LS460 with 115k on it. I've noticed that about a month ago the car started driving pretty weird. The transmission would shift hard and jerky almost through the first 3 gears, like driving a manual.
Also, when I tried to floor the car from maybe 40-50mph, the rpm would shoot up only 500 then downshift and accelerate causing a violent jerk. It feels like if I was driving at 50mph on 8th gear, when I floored it the car would feel like it downshifted to 7th gear for merely less than a second and downshifted again to 4th gear causing the car to jerk hard.
This is the car's history:
- Reset the ECU by disconnecting the battery (no luck)
- Auto transmission software has been updated at the dealer
- Valve springs recall has been completed
- Head covers has been changed
- Engine module has been reprogrammed by the dealer at 70k miles
- Trans fluid has been changed at 70k miles according to lexus.com service record
So at this point I really don't know what could cause this problem anymore, maybe it could be the transmission fluid?
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So I took my car in for the recall last night and also told my service advisor that my transmission has been a bit jerky lately. Kind of felt like the clutch was slipping when you start going from dead stop, and clunk here, clunk there.
After their diagnostics it seems to be the Mechatronics unit, apparently about 50% of our cars had the issue. The part would have to be ordered from VW due to it being made per VIN and is on back order. They didn't have the reacall parts in stock so I had to leave my car there. Stuck in a bright red Jetta now.
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2002 Chrysler Town and Country. My speedometer jumps wildly and then goes clockwise and rest without working. The trany hesitates and has a jerking when sitting in drive, and slow to shift into 2nd gear. We have replaced speed sensors, wiring and connectors, and now are thinking the chassis control box may be next.
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The primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank of my 2004 W12 failed last month, shortly after I had set out on a cross-Canada trip from Vancouver Island to Toronto. The whole process of diagnosing and identifying the cause of the problem, mitigating it so that I could continue the trip, and finally replacing the fuel pump was kind of complex, so, here's the write-up.
The problem presented itself as a surging of the engine - a momentary loss of power - at normal highway operating speeds. The onset was progressive, but it didn't take very long - only about 60 miles of driving - from the first little cough of the engine until total failure of the pump. The first indication was failure of the car to maintain speed (while on cruise control) when climbing hills. That progressed to failure to maintain speed on flat surfaces, and finally led to the car coasting to a stop, engine stalled, at the side of the road.
I soon learned that if I floored the accelerator pedal and held it against the floor, the car would cough and burp for a few seconds, then take off like a rocket. So, for the next 40 miles, I coaxed the car into the next city by flooring it, accelerating to about 80 MPH, then coasting until the speed dropped to 20 MPH, and flooring it once again and accelerating to 80 MPH. Fortunately, I was on a remote road with few other cars, and no police.
I checked the fuses for the two fuel pumps - fuses 34 and 35 in panel C (above the left battery), and they were both OK.
The next day, I visited a VW dealer in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, and together with the parts manager and one of the technicians, we looked at the Self-Study Guides (SSGs) for the Phaeton, and looked at wiring diagrams. Eventually, we came to a tentative conclusion that the primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank had failed. The SSGs stated that the primary electric fuel pump (the pump on the right side of the car) operates all the time, and the secondary electric fuel pump (the pump on the left side of the car) only operates during starting and during 'periods of high demand'. That made sense to us - the car started fine, and worked OK when the accelerator pedal was held to the floor (high demand). It just didn't work worth a darn at any other time... the engine would stall, or, the car would not accelerate at all.
Here are two illustrations taken from the SSGs that describe how the fuel delivery system works. The first image is taken from the 'Phaeton Overview' SSG, which applies to all vehicles. The second image is taken from the W12 engine SSG. I kind of suspect that all the Phaetons operate in the same way, regardless of engine, because the fuel tank in all the Phaetons has the same shape - two lower lobes, which means two pumps are required.
Descriptions from the SSGs
I think that there may be an error in the description above. My experience suggests that the right hand pump (identified as G6, above) is the primary pump, and the left hand pump (identified as G23) is the one that switches on during starting and periods of high demand. Note also how the identification of G6 and G23 in the illustration above is reversed from what is shown in the illustration below. I believe that the text and illustration below is correct, and the text and illustration above is incorrect.
The 'effects of failure' in the description above would, I believe, make sense if it was the left-hand pump that failed. In my case, the right hand pump failed, and the effects of failure that I experienced were as I set them out in the beginning paragraphs of this post - quite different from the 'effects of failure' of the left hand pump that are described in the SSG above.
After coming to the tentative diagnosis that the primary electric fuel pump (the right hand pump) had failed, we checked the parts stock status in North America. There was one pump in stock, but it was in the United States, and being that it was a Thursday, the pump could not be delivered before the following Tuesday. I didn't want to spend that much time waiting for it, so, we started thinking about other possible solutions.
If we could somehow get the secondary electric fuel pump - the pump on the left side of the car that only operated during starting and heavy demand - to operate, that just might put me back on the road again. So, I removed the plastic cover from the small relay that operates the secondary pump, and wrapped a rubber band around the relay, thus keeping the relay in the closed position. A short test drive proved that this solution worked just fine, the car once again operated normally. The only "problem" was that the last 25% of the fuel in the tank would be unusable, because that fuel would be left behind in the right-hand lobe of the tank - the lobe with the defective primary fuel pump.
Electric Fuel Pump Relays
Here is an illustration from the Phaeton wiring diagrams identifying the various relays above the left battery.
Here you can see the two relays for the electric fuel pumps. They are identical part numbers.
Here you can see the relay for the secondary electric fuel pump, with a rubber band wrapped around it to keep it continually closed.
Aside from the loss of use of the last 25% of the fuel in the fuel tank, the car worked just fine with the secondary electric fuel pump running all the time. There were no problems noted even under heavy acceleration. It was, however, necessary to physically remove the rubber-banded relay from its position in the relay panel whenever the car was shut down for more than half a hour. The power to this relay comes from Terminal 30 (battery direct) - it is not switched on and off with the ignition as Terminal 15 power is. This meant that if the rubber-banded relay was left in position overnight, the left hand battery would totally discharge, because the fuel pump would operate continuously all night. I discovered this the morning after the first night...
So, for the next 8 days, I drove across Canada, removing the relay each night and replacing it each morning. I didn't bother to remove it when I stopped for meals or fuel. The rest of the 3,000 mile trip was uneventful - except once, when I let the fuel tank run down a bit too close to the 1/4 full mark, and the car began surging again because the left hand lobe of the fuel tank (with the functional secondary pump) had emptied out. That was a close call, but I managed to get to a gas station and refuel.
After arriving in Toronto, I called the parts staff at my home VW dealer and ordered a new primary electric fuel pump. I discovered that the left and right hand pumps are slightly different (the various hoses coming out of the pumps are different), and I also discovered that a pump costs about $400. The parts staff suggested I order two seals (one for each side of the tank), because I would have to remove both the right and left fuel tank covers to change the right pump. The seals were not expensive.
Here are two pictures that illustrate where the pumps sit in each lobe of the fuel tank. Note the fuel filler port on the left side of the pictures (as we know, it is on the right side of the car) for orientation.
Phaeton Fuel Tank, showing pumps
Fuel Pump Access Panels
Below is a picture that shows where the access panels to the two fuel pumps are. It's easy to get to these access panels, just remove the carpeted panel from the floor of the trunk.
Here's a close-up of the right side (primary) electric fuel pump access panel.
The instructions (from the VW Repair Manual, or the ELSA / ErWin system) for replacing the fuel pump are quite well written. The repair manual suggests that the fuel tank be drained before replacing a pump. I didn't want to drain the tank, so, I ran the fuel level down as low as I dared (remembering that 1/4 full is effectively 'empty' with a failed primary pump). That proved to be adequate.
There are a heck of a lot of steps involved in disconnecting all the hoses and loosening the various components before the pump can be removed. I strongly suggest that anyone attempting this task have a printed set of instructions before starting disassembly.
The fuel pump has quite a few hoses and connections on it, but fortunately, each connector is unique in design, thus it is not possible to hook things up the wrong way when installing the new pump. It is possible to 'lose' a hose inside the tank... for this reason, I attached a small piece of string to each hose I disconnected from the pump.
The process goes more or less like this:
1) Remove the two 404 relays, to ensure no power is sent to either fuel pump.
2) Lift the rubber cover, and remove the electrical connections from both pumps (left and right).
3) Using a special tool, lift up the three fasteners that hold the cap over top of the access panel (these are NOT threaded fasteners!)
Here is a side view of the three fasteners that hold the plastic cap in place - they are friction fit, not threaded.
4) Now you have a clear view of the access panel. It will probably be dusty and rusty, and should be vacuumed clean before proceeding, to prevent crap from falling into the fuel tank when the cap is removed. The rust is due to condensation forming on the cold metal part whenever the car is filled with cold fuel from an underground storage tank.
5) A special VW tool is used to remove the locking ring from the access panel.
6) After removing the locking ring, I buffed it up with a wire brush to remove surface corrosion.
7) The plastic access cap can now be lifted. There are two electrical connectors on each fuel pump, but three possible fittings on the plastic cap. Fortunately, the three fittings are keyed differently.
8) This is what you see inside the tank after removing the plastic cap.
9) After following all the detailed instructions for disconnecting and stowing hoses, disconnecting the fuel measurement probe from the pump housing, etc., it is possible to lift the pump out. It will be full of fuel.
10) The old and new pumps, side by side. I was very surprised at the amount of crap that was trapped in the filter screen at the bottom of the pump. The car only has 60,000 miles on it, and I have always used premium fuel in it.
11) I was also a bit surprised at the discolouration of the pump components. Below you can see the old and new pumps side by side.
12) It is necessary to get access to the opposite side (in this case, the left side) fuel pump, because hoses from each pump travel horizontally across the tank and connect to the other pump.
13) Here you can see a new hose from the right side pump connecting into a T fitting above the left side pump. It is easy to thread this hose across the top of the inside of the tank.
14) As mentioned earlier, there are three possible fittings on the base of each plastic cap, but only two connectors within the fuel tank. Everything is keyed, thus improper assembly is not possible.
Once the new pump has been installed, the hoses connected, and the fuel measuring probe reset into the side of the new pump, re-assembly of everything is quite straightforward. I replaced the rubber ring around the access panel opening on each side of the tank, and I also buffed up the locking rings using a wire brush (to remove corrosion) on each side.
It was not a pleasant job - your hands get covered in fuel, and there are some hazards associated with working on an open fuel tank with vapour escaping, but it is not a particularly difficult job. It is time-consuming, though.
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I purchased a 2012 Subaru Forester 2.5X Premium (automatic transmission) in November 2011 with 4 miles on it. Since the get-go it has had issues, but we thought that some of them might work themselves out as we broke the car in (which we were religious about). At the first oil change, we told the dealership about the issues we were experiencing and got the expected "the computer doesn't say anything is wrong" and "we couldn't replicate the problems" excuses. We were told to bring it back if the problems continued. Well, they've gotten worse. Here are what we are experiencing:
- Erratic shifting. I commute from the mountains to the city every day, so I need power from the car. Sometimes, when I'm heading down a hill and I tap the gas slightly to give myself a little boost, the car will suddenly downshift, even though it was sitting at 2500 RPM and didn't need to get any extra power beyond more fuel. Going up the hill is worse, as if you are not actively accelerating (including if you are trying to maintain a constant speed), it will upshift on you and you lose all power, so it will need to downshift to make up for this. It does this constantly for the entire drive home. Everyone who has driven this car in the mountains has experienced this.
- Jerky transmission. When the car shifts, it is super harsh and tends to throw you forward or back. Even when on flat ground it shifts roughly.
- Sluggish acceleration. If I give the car any more gas than I usually do, it hesitates before going anywhere. One day I needed to get over on the highway fast and floored it - it took the car about 2 seconds to respond. Then, yesterday, we were turning on to a highway from a side road and I tried to accelerate (gas about 1/2 way to the floor) and it didn't respond at all for about 5 seconds and the "Check Engine" and the traction control lights started flashing at me. We were on a paved road with no gravel, water, ice, etc and the traction control light began flashing on the straight, not while we were turning. There are also days when it feels like there is an anchor tied to the car and it just doesn't want to give me any umph at all.
- Rough starts. This is the really weird one as there is no rhyme or reason as to when it happens. Some times it takes the car several revolutions to turn over. Oddly, it's never on the really cold (under 20 degrees F) days, but it has happened when it is ~35 degrees and a couple of times when I have started it in the middle of the day to grab lunch and it is ~65 degrees out.
- Running rough. This usually happens after a rough start, but can also happen at other times. It just idles very rough and won't calm down. These are the days I have the worst time with the shifting issues.
I had a 2001 Forester that threw a rod, which forced me to get this car. Everyone who has driven both agrees that the 2001 was quicker, easier to drive, and had more gumption than the 2012. It also had less problems even though I purchased it used in 2005 (until the whole rod-throwing thing, of course). I really want to love my 2012 Forester, but I am so upset that, for the first time in my life I have a new car, and it runs terribly.
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One day I was driving my truck 96 f150 4x4 Eddie Bauer edition and the over drive light started flashing and the truck got jerky going up hills. I got home and hooked my code reader up and (p0708) it said transmission range sensor. I replaced that the next day and drove it around town for about 30 minutes and parked it all seemed to good. But the very next day I started down the road and the transmission was slipping very bad after I turned around after a few hundred feet I barley made it back to my house. I checked my transmission fluid it's full and doesn't smell burnt or anything, I double checked the alignment on the neutral safety switch I just installed and it still in line. So I'm thinking my transmission is going out...
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Sadly I own a 2010 Toyota Venza. For about 3 months(since May) I have been having problems with the air conditioner and front defroster. It works intermittently. Sometimes it will work for 3 days straight. Sometimes it will stop working while driving(it will blow hot air), but most of the time if I am driving and it works it will keep working for the whole ride. If I need to restart the car after a short stop it tends to fail, and then the next morning is a crap shoot.
It seems to work better when it is hot out, but not always. I had a front end collision in November, and had the condenser replaced and the system recharged. The defrost worked fine all through the winter. Since May I have had the system recharged 2 times. the second time with dye in it (no leak). I was told to change the condenser valve (150.00), and then I was told that was not the problem, and that I needed to change the compressor ($2,000.00 for the part alone). The compressor seems to work.
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I have a 2006 BMW 530i (manual transmission 6 speed) and the steering malfunction alert intermittently comes on when I drive the car first thing in the morning, almost always at the first stop sign I approach which is about 1/2 a mile. When I turn the car off and restart, the alert sometimes back on but not always. I keep the car in the garage when not driving. It only has 60,000 miles.
I took the car to BMW service and was told the key didn't show the steering malfunction alert ever coming up, but the water pump alert had come on. This alert never showed up on the display. BMW replaced the water pump and the next morning the steering malfunction alert came on again. At this point the steering malfunction light had come on about 12 times total but I have never had any trouble steering or felt any kind of difficulty at all.
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