Passat (B5) :: V6 Tiptronic - Momentary Loss Of Power
Dec 30, 2006
2001.5 V6 Tiptronic ... A few times in the last couple of months I've felt what I think is a quick lapse in power, like 1 sec. or less. I say "think" because sometimes a bump in the road, traction related, or some other perceived issue can feel strange, especially when cruising along on a smooth cruise-controlled drive.
Each time this has occurred I've been in cruise control, freeway driving, relatively low speeds (65 MPH) . No other signs of anything wrong, chimes, flickering lights, vibration, nothing.
I can't be sure this time around but it seems in the past it's been on the same stretch of freeway, perhaps the same spot. In other words perhaps just a subtle anomaly in the road ...
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I have had the car sense it was brand new and sense I have had it I have had this problem. I mostly notice a problem soon after starting the engine up and come to a stop, but is not limited to that all the times. When I come to a stop the car will feel like it is struggling to maintain an idle as I sit at the light or stop sign and it will actually shake the car a bit. I have noticed when it does do this the fan is on and it might be related to having the alternator trying to keep up with power draw.
I have noticed a loss of power when I am driving down the road it will cut out for maybe a half a second and come back. Usually doesn't happen more than once in one trip. I have brought it to the dealership multiple times to try and see if the can hunt down a problem but it keeps coming back with a clean bill of health. So my question is it something that is normal with diesel engines or is it something that I should take a further look at.
And while on the topic of diesel engines, my uncle a mechanic for diesel engines suggested that I spray a small amount of propane into the air intake to burn up sludge to keep the engine relatively clean. Need to get second opinion of that idea before I try it?
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The car started rough idling and a few weeks ago while driving "lost power" momentarily. I went to take a look at it and even just idling it will randomly drop 1000 rpm, or when the gas is one in P it does the same thing. also the dash lights dim at the same time.
I pulled these codes (below). I cleared the codes and tried to replicate with no luck. The car had been sitting in a parking lot outside for a few days and it has been -15C. I asked if it seemed to only happen when it was warm (the week before it was +10C) and they said yes. It has been another week (still cold) and the codes have not returned.
Quick google of these codes suggests maybe a throttle position sensor and/or loose battery connection.
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It did this funny thing about 4-5 times over a span of about 24 hrs before dying and then won't start. It was like hitting the limit on a speed governed car.....sudden momentary loss of power..and it seemed to be when accelerating if that matters. The thing I'm sure of at this point is that the fuel pump is not coming on when the key is turned, I know that sound well, but also checked it at the external connector with a test light for thoroughness. I also found a blown fuse under the hood which coincided with a little smokey smell inside the car when the fuse was replaced and blew again.
There is no spark as well. My Haynes book says that the PCM is behind the passenger kick panel but I only see the eecv and it doesn't smell burnt. The IFS is good. There is power at the coil packs. Fuel pump relay fuse is good. Is it more likely the ccrm since it contains the fuel pump relay and PCM relay or could it still be the eecv? It feels like one part failed but is causing more than one "problem", no power to fuel pump and no spark.
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Having problems where sometimes the car won't go into gear, other times it's fine? The problem started after some hard acceleration in 3rd, there was what felt like a momentary loss in power. I dipped the clutch as I thought a boost pipe had popped off, all was fine (still seeing boost when revved). After this it got progressively harder to get gears, finally resulting in not being able to get into gear at all.
I found I could get it into 1st with the engine off and could go up gears normally, but couldn't change down without stopping and turning the engine off. The clutch is working fine, the biting point is normal. The problem seams to come and go randomly, it will work fine for a while and then start playing up again. When working the gearbox feels normal, there is no grinding or wining noises. I can move between gears normally and do clutch less gear changes.
There is now a vibration which can be felt at 1000rpm when stationary. It feels like it coming from the engine/gearbox and seems like something is out of balance as it shakes the whole car. The car is on 91k, supercharged running 470hp & 370lb/ft (at flywheel) and is fitted with a Spec stage 3+ clutch and solid flywheel.
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I have a problem with my 2004 Santa Fe, 2l diesel. Will try to keep this short!
When driving it suddenly 'heaves' (not sure how else to describe it), then it cuts out. I wait about a minute and then it restarts.
At first there was no 'heave' but there would be a momentary loss of power (I thought it was the clutch). Then it progressed to the 'heave' and then cut out, this happened now and then. Very quickly it started to do it every time I drove it. My neighbor mechanic blew down the fuel line, said the fuel pump in tank sounded ok, seemed to do it more when below quarter of tank.
So I kept tank topped up, it seemed ok, then on one 11 mile journey it did it 3 times, the last time the engine management light came on, crawled it home, after which it would not start at all. The computer said it was either fuel rail or coolant sensor. Neighbor replaced coolant sensor, it started ok. Tried it next day - 6 miles and it heaved and cut out again. This time no light coming on.
I've read about cam sensor, crank shaft sensor, fuel pump at back of engine...
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The primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank of my 2004 W12 failed last month, shortly after I had set out on a cross-Canada trip from Vancouver Island to Toronto. The whole process of diagnosing and identifying the cause of the problem, mitigating it so that I could continue the trip, and finally replacing the fuel pump was kind of complex, so, here's the write-up.
The problem presented itself as a surging of the engine - a momentary loss of power - at normal highway operating speeds. The onset was progressive, but it didn't take very long - only about 60 miles of driving - from the first little cough of the engine until total failure of the pump. The first indication was failure of the car to maintain speed (while on cruise control) when climbing hills. That progressed to failure to maintain speed on flat surfaces, and finally led to the car coasting to a stop, engine stalled, at the side of the road.
I soon learned that if I floored the accelerator pedal and held it against the floor, the car would cough and burp for a few seconds, then take off like a rocket. So, for the next 40 miles, I coaxed the car into the next city by flooring it, accelerating to about 80 MPH, then coasting until the speed dropped to 20 MPH, and flooring it once again and accelerating to 80 MPH. Fortunately, I was on a remote road with few other cars, and no police.
I checked the fuses for the two fuel pumps - fuses 34 and 35 in panel C (above the left battery), and they were both OK.
The next day, I visited a VW dealer in the Canadian Rocky Mountains, and together with the parts manager and one of the technicians, we looked at the Self-Study Guides (SSGs) for the Phaeton, and looked at wiring diagrams. Eventually, we came to a tentative conclusion that the primary electric fuel pump in the fuel tank had failed. The SSGs stated that the primary electric fuel pump (the pump on the right side of the car) operates all the time, and the secondary electric fuel pump (the pump on the left side of the car) only operates during starting and during 'periods of high demand'. That made sense to us - the car started fine, and worked OK when the accelerator pedal was held to the floor (high demand). It just didn't work worth a darn at any other time... the engine would stall, or, the car would not accelerate at all.
Here are two illustrations taken from the SSGs that describe how the fuel delivery system works. The first image is taken from the 'Phaeton Overview' SSG, which applies to all vehicles. The second image is taken from the W12 engine SSG. I kind of suspect that all the Phaetons operate in the same way, regardless of engine, because the fuel tank in all the Phaetons has the same shape - two lower lobes, which means two pumps are required.
Descriptions from the SSGs
I think that there may be an error in the description above. My experience suggests that the right hand pump (identified as G6, above) is the primary pump, and the left hand pump (identified as G23) is the one that switches on during starting and periods of high demand. Note also how the identification of G6 and G23 in the illustration above is reversed from what is shown in the illustration below. I believe that the text and illustration below is correct, and the text and illustration above is incorrect.
The 'effects of failure' in the description above would, I believe, make sense if it was the left-hand pump that failed. In my case, the right hand pump failed, and the effects of failure that I experienced were as I set them out in the beginning paragraphs of this post - quite different from the 'effects of failure' of the left hand pump that are described in the SSG above.
After coming to the tentative diagnosis that the primary electric fuel pump (the right hand pump) had failed, we checked the parts stock status in North America. There was one pump in stock, but it was in the United States, and being that it was a Thursday, the pump could not be delivered before the following Tuesday. I didn't want to spend that much time waiting for it, so, we started thinking about other possible solutions.
If we could somehow get the secondary electric fuel pump - the pump on the left side of the car that only operated during starting and heavy demand - to operate, that just might put me back on the road again. So, I removed the plastic cover from the small relay that operates the secondary pump, and wrapped a rubber band around the relay, thus keeping the relay in the closed position. A short test drive proved that this solution worked just fine, the car once again operated normally. The only "problem" was that the last 25% of the fuel in the tank would be unusable, because that fuel would be left behind in the right-hand lobe of the tank - the lobe with the defective primary fuel pump.
Electric Fuel Pump Relays
Here is an illustration from the Phaeton wiring diagrams identifying the various relays above the left battery.
Here you can see the two relays for the electric fuel pumps. They are identical part numbers.
Here you can see the relay for the secondary electric fuel pump, with a rubber band wrapped around it to keep it continually closed.
Aside from the loss of use of the last 25% of the fuel in the fuel tank, the car worked just fine with the secondary electric fuel pump running all the time. There were no problems noted even under heavy acceleration. It was, however, necessary to physically remove the rubber-banded relay from its position in the relay panel whenever the car was shut down for more than half a hour. The power to this relay comes from Terminal 30 (battery direct) - it is not switched on and off with the ignition as Terminal 15 power is. This meant that if the rubber-banded relay was left in position overnight, the left hand battery would totally discharge, because the fuel pump would operate continuously all night. I discovered this the morning after the first night...
So, for the next 8 days, I drove across Canada, removing the relay each night and replacing it each morning. I didn't bother to remove it when I stopped for meals or fuel. The rest of the 3,000 mile trip was uneventful - except once, when I let the fuel tank run down a bit too close to the 1/4 full mark, and the car began surging again because the left hand lobe of the fuel tank (with the functional secondary pump) had emptied out. That was a close call, but I managed to get to a gas station and refuel.
After arriving in Toronto, I called the parts staff at my home VW dealer and ordered a new primary electric fuel pump. I discovered that the left and right hand pumps are slightly different (the various hoses coming out of the pumps are different), and I also discovered that a pump costs about $400. The parts staff suggested I order two seals (one for each side of the tank), because I would have to remove both the right and left fuel tank covers to change the right pump. The seals were not expensive.
Here are two pictures that illustrate where the pumps sit in each lobe of the fuel tank. Note the fuel filler port on the left side of the pictures (as we know, it is on the right side of the car) for orientation.
Phaeton Fuel Tank, showing pumps
Fuel Pump Access Panels
Below is a picture that shows where the access panels to the two fuel pumps are. It's easy to get to these access panels, just remove the carpeted panel from the floor of the trunk.
Here's a close-up of the right side (primary) electric fuel pump access panel.
The instructions (from the VW Repair Manual, or the ELSA / ErWin system) for replacing the fuel pump are quite well written. The repair manual suggests that the fuel tank be drained before replacing a pump. I didn't want to drain the tank, so, I ran the fuel level down as low as I dared (remembering that 1/4 full is effectively 'empty' with a failed primary pump). That proved to be adequate.
There are a heck of a lot of steps involved in disconnecting all the hoses and loosening the various components before the pump can be removed. I strongly suggest that anyone attempting this task have a printed set of instructions before starting disassembly.
The fuel pump has quite a few hoses and connections on it, but fortunately, each connector is unique in design, thus it is not possible to hook things up the wrong way when installing the new pump. It is possible to 'lose' a hose inside the tank... for this reason, I attached a small piece of string to each hose I disconnected from the pump.
The process goes more or less like this:
1) Remove the two 404 relays, to ensure no power is sent to either fuel pump.
2) Lift the rubber cover, and remove the electrical connections from both pumps (left and right).
3) Using a special tool, lift up the three fasteners that hold the cap over top of the access panel (these are NOT threaded fasteners!)
Here is a side view of the three fasteners that hold the plastic cap in place - they are friction fit, not threaded.
4) Now you have a clear view of the access panel. It will probably be dusty and rusty, and should be vacuumed clean before proceeding, to prevent crap from falling into the fuel tank when the cap is removed. The rust is due to condensation forming on the cold metal part whenever the car is filled with cold fuel from an underground storage tank.
5) A special VW tool is used to remove the locking ring from the access panel.
6) After removing the locking ring, I buffed it up with a wire brush to remove surface corrosion.
7) The plastic access cap can now be lifted. There are two electrical connectors on each fuel pump, but three possible fittings on the plastic cap. Fortunately, the three fittings are keyed differently.
8) This is what you see inside the tank after removing the plastic cap.
9) After following all the detailed instructions for disconnecting and stowing hoses, disconnecting the fuel measurement probe from the pump housing, etc., it is possible to lift the pump out. It will be full of fuel.
10) The old and new pumps, side by side. I was very surprised at the amount of crap that was trapped in the filter screen at the bottom of the pump. The car only has 60,000 miles on it, and I have always used premium fuel in it.
11) I was also a bit surprised at the discolouration of the pump components. Below you can see the old and new pumps side by side.
12) It is necessary to get access to the opposite side (in this case, the left side) fuel pump, because hoses from each pump travel horizontally across the tank and connect to the other pump.
13) Here you can see a new hose from the right side pump connecting into a T fitting above the left side pump. It is easy to thread this hose across the top of the inside of the tank.
14) As mentioned earlier, there are three possible fittings on the base of each plastic cap, but only two connectors within the fuel tank. Everything is keyed, thus improper assembly is not possible.
Once the new pump has been installed, the hoses connected, and the fuel measuring probe reset into the side of the new pump, re-assembly of everything is quite straightforward. I replaced the rubber ring around the access panel opening on each side of the tank, and I also buffed up the locking rings using a wire brush (to remove corrosion) on each side.
It was not a pleasant job - your hands get covered in fuel, and there are some hazards associated with working on an open fuel tank with vapour escaping, but it is not a particularly difficult job. It is time-consuming, though.
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A couple weeks ago I had to have both lower ball joints replaced on my '01 XLS 4WD with the 6 cylinder engine. The garage's alignment machine was on the blink, so the mechanic told me to it woudl be fine to drive, and to bring it back this week when the machine was fixed.
The Escape seemed to drive fine until today, coming home from work, the Escape veered slightly to the right, and there was a brief sensation in the steering wheel as if it had been disconnected, as if something slipped. Then the steering was back, and although I was tracking straight down the highway, I noticed the steering wheel was turned to the left. It seemed to steer fine, although I had slowed way down.
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Background: During the last couple of weeks, this happened at least twice: I had to turn the engine for a good 3-4 seconds before it started, and after it did, the EPC light came on. The car drove normally (short lunch drive) and later started with no problem and no EPC light.
This morning, during some stop and go driving, it felt like the engine cutoff for a split second and the EPC light came on. The car then drove fine but the light obviously stayed on. Then on the freeway at 70mph, the engine cutoff, the RPM needle dropped to zero, but within a second or two it came back to life. The "STOP driving" sign blinked just once or twice during this time and disappeared." I can't say for sure, but I am almost sure the engine came back on its own before I cranked it. After that, it felt like it was about to go anytime, but that could have been psychological. Got to work, turned off the engine, turned it on again, and no EPC light!
I found his tidbit on the web claiming it could be the MAF. I also have had the secondary air pump code for the last few months. Could that also be triggered by a faulty MAF? Obviously, I am taking the car to the dealer tomorrow morning. I hope it will be easy to diagnose and fix. Otherwise, it might be time to dump the car?
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I have a '98 1.8t and my tiptronic shifter would not work so I did some research and found out about the magnets usually fall off inside the console. Sure enough, mine had fallen off. I glued it back on and my tip still will not work. When i slide the shifter over nothing happens, it just stays in automatic.
I was wondering if there was another switch somewhere or something inside the transmission that just doesn't work anymore.
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Still relatively new to this car and VWs in general. I have a 2.0T sedan with 39,500 miles. I've noticed this just about every time I slow to around 40mph and then accelerate again. It's like the car can't figure out what gear it wants to be in. I don't mess around with sport mode and rarely shift manually. No real problems accelerating, just a weird shimmy when coasting from say 50mph down to 40mph and then another clunk when I accelerate again.
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I was driving in tip yesterday and some of time that 3-2 downshift is choppy b/c revs dont match. So i tried a modified heel-toe, timing it so that i pressed the gas while the engine was disengaged i got a little rpm boost but then nothing as if during the shift the throttle was cut. is this possibly a safety feature to prevent unnecessary wear? or is it just not possible with a tip?
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I am having problems with the car disengaging from park even with the brake depressed, so I decide to remove the shifter cover and will doing that i lost/broke the cover strip and magnets so now my tiptronic will not engage. Where I can get them from and what could cause the shifter to lock up in park. It releases after a while but you have to depress and release the brake pedal and pull on the shifter at the same time.
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I have a 1998 Passat v6 triptronic I recently had a lot of work done on the car including a new throttle body I have noticed since I got it back from the mechanic after a short drive it starts to miss and you can actually feel the motor shaking around through the drivers seat, I had a couple of passengers in my car (back seat) and they could feel it too, seems to be fine when I first start to drive it but after around 5 minutes it starts shaking, I also noticed today when I got home I opened the bonnet and the motor seemed hot as did all of the parts around the motor including the water in the top up tank. friends keep telling me it could be my spark plug leads but I am more inclined to think it may be a coil, when I check the temperature gauge it is on half way and this seems to be normal for my car so it's not showing that the motor is getting hot.
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