Ford 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel :: Long Cranking When Warm / Pressure Too Low
Jan 29, 2016
Some information about the truck2004 Excursion, Motor has a December 2003 built date listed on the valve cover
Bullet proof complete by Hallas performance just prior to Mike's passing (3 years ago). ARP, EGR, Oil Cooler, lifters, etc..
Newer batteries, DC amp 185 alternator, newer starter, she cranks hard and fast~230,000 miles
Here is the situation: Starts good and fast when cold, even subzero temperatures. She cranks long and barely catches if I make a short stop at a store or restaurant. A few hours later or the next morning is fine.
I found the following codes:
P2284 - Injector Control Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P2291 - Injector Control Pressure Too Low - Engine Cranking
P0528
I took her into the local Ford Dealer for diagnosis and here's what they reported. ICP tests good and has the latest pigtails. They reported a leak in either of the following.
Oil injection pump Estimate of 8.5 hours to repair.
Under the Valve Cover Gasket. Estimate of 3.5 hours to repair.
So here are the questions I have. Does this diagnosis sound appropriate? Is it reasonable that they do not know which area is causing the problem? Are the hours reasonable estimates for the repairs? Assuming I go ahead with these repairs, is there anything else I should have them look at while they're in there?
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As the title says I am suddenly having a long crank when starting and low oil pressure when when warm (above approximately 100 degrees). IPR goes to 85% when cranking. Stored codes were P2290 and P2291. Other symptoms are low power and what sounds like a power steering pump with low oil whine and low power. (It is not power steering related however, I checked.) I pulled the oil filter and cranked engine and filter bowl filled in less than 10 seconds.
Oil did have a fair bit of air bubbles. Oil has 5000 miles and is Motorcraft 10w30 diesel. I have not added any since the last change. I do not have the new style pump so it's not the STC fitting. What my issue is? I do have AE if any other info is required. Particulars are in sig. The searches I have done combined with the mileage I have lead me to either the low pressure pump is failing, or the high pressure pump has lost the ball bearing out of the side.
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2005 Ex with 6.0. It has been bulletproofed. But has had a long crank after sitting for over 5 hours. I was starting to think glowplugs but no codes, Then thinking FICM, nope voltage has always been good. After I run the truck for a few miles if I kill it. It would crank right up. No issues. Only happened after it sat for awhile. I knew it had to do with HPOP system since it took about 5 to 8 seconds to show over 500PSI.
The passenger side does not have a leak since the oil is to the top of ICP sensor. When I was going to remove it. So I took off the drivers side. I inspected the dummy plug. No issues there "they are the 12mm with teflon plugs" I inspected the stand pipe. No issues there either. I inspected the small test port on the top of the rail. No issues there either. So I decided to air test it. So I used my auto-ingenuity to close the IPR valve after I heard all the oil blow out.
Then after sitting with 120 psi of air for about 10 minutes. I hear a bubbling sound coming from the Drivers side Rail. It was a plug I have never seen mentioned here. It is at the back of the rail. I removed it and sure enough the oring is split in 2. I went to ford and picked up a new Oring it was like $4. It also looks like its a different material. I am still in the process of putting the truck back together so i have not started it back up. But I am pretty sure this was my problem.
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OK so here is what is going on in my world. I have an '03 F-250 6.0 Crew Cab 4x4, with an Edge programmer and 4" MBRP exhaust. About 3 years and only 20,000 miles ago I changed out the HPOP, O-rings on the rails, all new O-rings on the injectors, blue spring in the fuel pump, IPR valve, EGR valve and a number of other new seals in my high pressure system. The truck has run great since then. I cleaned out my turbo about a year ago and it has been like new.
Now for the fun part. About a month ago it has been cranking a little longer when hot than it should, but not too bad. About 2 weeks ago even though it starts fine in the morning, it is just completely gutless out of the driveway until about a block away the turbo spools up strong and it runs great. It has run perfectly during this time once it is warmed up a little bit. Saturday it left me stranded in a parking lot cranking with no start. It had been sitting for about 2 hours.
I got towed home and plugged in my SGII and it shows my ICP at 345 when cranking hot. Once cold it starts up and runs great, but won't start again once hot. I changed out my IPR valve with a used one that I had on the shelf that I took out when I did my HPOP. No change. The FICM has 47 volt while cranking and 49 when just ign is on. Batteries are very strong and it has a new starter. When cranking the low oil pressure comes up on the gauge. Not sure where to start and I am frustrated. I have had this truck for 9 years and it is in great shape. It only has 138,000 miles.
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My 06 currently has 296k miles. 3 years ago I put a lot into her. Dummy plugs, stand pipes, STC, hg,studs, oil cooler, bpd egr cooler. Cleaned spool valves and fresh o rings in injectors. (Alliant) plus a lot more that I can't remember. Ran very very well after all that.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Driving down road and truck died as I let off pedal to slow down for turn onto my road. Took about 7-8 tries to get started back up. Icp was reading in the 300's until it finally started. Made it home. Shut it off. And started right back up.
Few days later truck died again same way. Let off to make a turn. Several attempts to restart icp was in the 300's again. Once it started building 420ish it sounded like it was firing a few injectors and slowly started running. The next time it happened the same way but when I got it back running I eased to my inlaws like less than a mile. When I got to their house and pulled in and went to back up to turn around the display on dash said low oil pressure and started missing a little. So once I got home started researching.
A few days ago I pulled out the low pressure oil regulator to check it out. It was clean but did have some mild scaring. I used some fine scotch rite and smooth it out a a little. It moved freely in the bore so I put it back together. Then pulled the oil filter cap off to check the little black valve. I noticed the filter was not dripping with oil like normally when I change the oil. And yes it's motor craft filter and cap. It checked out ok. Press it down and turned engine over and it filled and held. Let off of it and it drained.
Next I air checked the high pressure side. Applied air and waited until I could hear the air (IPR still open) then closed the IPR. Couldn't hear any leaks. Just a very very minor his and couldn't pin point where. So I went ahead and went to dealer and got new stand pipes and plugs. And ordered new print set for injectors. Pulled injectors and didn't see any smoking guns. Replaced prongs, stand pipe and dummy plugs and put it all back together. Cleaned the injector cups and hold down bolt holes. Torqued injectors to spec.
Got it all done and rotate motor by wire next to heater blower to assist prime system. Tried to start it up and it took two tries but fired right up and sounded smooth as hell. After it idled a few minutes I saw a haze from exhaust. It smelt just like fuel. A few minutes later started idle a little rough. Gave it some go pedel and it was rougher at about 1600-1800rpms and couldn't feel it above 2k. Got my laptop out with AE and done balance test. Did not show anything. No codes either.
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Dang, won't start again. My auction truck needed batteries, so I put mine in it and bought new ones for my work truck. Couple of days later, didn't start. Checked SG and I wasn't getting enough RPM. Jumped it and it fired right up. Replaced one of the new batteries and it's started fine the last few times, until just now, in the parking lot of the tire store.
The RPMs were weak - they'd go over 160 but then fall back to the 140s. I walked home and got my auction truck, jumped it, and it still doesn't start. Just spins. RPMs still fall back to the 140s after a few seconds of cranking, but they got as high as 220 so I don't think that is the problem. Fuel pump runs, the upper bowl is full, no bubbles. Oil pressure registers on the dash after a few seconds of cranking.
The last time, I wiggled some fuses and it started. Not this time. FICM at 48, ICP around 700 while cranking. Volts and IPV are good. FPW is 0, but I think that's right, until it cranks. Same with Sync - at 0 while cranking - does it ever go to 1 without starting?
It acts like it has in the past - cranking just fine but no start. And in the past, when it finally starts, it acts like nothing was ever wrong. I checked my IPR screen about a month ago after replacing it about 6 months ago when it didn't start. What am I missing? I'll go read some threads for clues.
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I "Bulletproofed" my f-250 Super-duty last summer and she ran great for a time, actually she is still running great, except for one thing that is driving me crazy. On a cold start it turns over until the oil pressure builds up. Then she will crank and runs fine, also starts normally after warm, turns over a couple of times and cranks.
I have oil in the filter housing, have replaced the seal at the bottom of it. Just pulled the oil rails off and replaced the seals on them, and a new IPR seal and filter. I am still having the problem, F.I.C.M. voltage has been fluctuating between 45 and 46 vdc. I have a P300 and P308 code.
I haven't really considered Injectors because it is idling smooth as silk and has great power.
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Just replaced the hpop on my 04' 6.0. It had been down for about a year because my low pressure oil light would come on after warm up. Truck ran PERFECT, but dam light would come on. Eventually it wouldn't start by cranking, but would on a bump. (I have a 6spd.) still ran good. I would never run it over 5 minutes because i didn't want to damage anything. Finally getting around to fix it.
After a day of air testing, we tracked it down to hpop. (air coming out of turbo drain tube). I had a hunch that the dam bb on pump had spit out from similar stories on FTE, and thats what happened.
Replaced pump. (its an older style pump BTW, although i have a january 04 build and every ford parts guy said differently.) Put everything back together and now it runs terrible! We ran the truck for over 20 minutes and it didn't get better. I am afraid its gonna damage something to keep running it. My mechanic says 5 cylinders are misfiring and its something to do with the ficm or injector harness.... But, it ran perfect right before the hpop change???? Everything was double checked to make sure it wasn't something dumb.
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I recently did the following work:
New Injectors
New T500 Hpop
New IPR
New ICP Sensor
New UVCH/Glowplugs
New starter
Been cranking about 15-30 seconds each time about a dozen times now. I've pulled the icp and the hp crossover and have oil flowing at each.
ICP builds to about 240 psi and at a 98% duty cycle....so I assume there's still some air in the system. I"m not getting any sense that the engine is trying to hit. Do i just keep cranking?
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Background on the vehicle, Last week installed Swamps 200cc/30% injectors with a 38r. Had swamps reburn my chip for the new upgrades.
But heres the problem i noticed starting the truck was a little harder ( longer cranking ) till it would start never thought of anything since i read air gets in and can cause it but then yesterday and today its taken 30 minutes to start the truck since i have to do a trial and error.
The truck just seems like the batteries are being drained or something along those lines. i also noticed my gauges keep resetting back to blue( default color). Today I plugged a battery charger up all good voltage i charged them so both read 14v and still no start. So a couple of attempts at starting with chip in and ICP on nothing
I unhook the chip and ICP get a half start then eventually it starts. After then i can hook it all back up and it starts good for the rest of the day but for what ever reason after it sits all night it doesn't want to start up right away. I'd like to figure it out today since id rather not wake up at 4am and attempt to do this all before work each day.
I noticed that my gauges would reset to the default color after each turn off. So i unscrewed my ECU and then redid that to make sure its tight. along with making sure the chip is seated properly. after that it stopped resting my gauges. Whether that's the issue or not i cant say but ive been checking my HPOP oil level since i stopped driving it around 1400. and hasn't changed oil levels are good. I plan on starting it before I go to bed around 2200-2300 just to check and see what happens.
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What a strange problem. EVERY EVERY morning the car starts perfect. Once it is warm some of the time (half) it will give a long crank approx 2.5 seconds before it will start. What a stupid problem! I have replaced:
Spark Plugs (NGK G-power) cheaper than stock, supposed to be better.
timing belt, water pump, idler-just matenence
Cam sensors
crank sensor (on tranny)
I checked the wires and coil by hosing them down while running. Vag-com says the temperature sensor is correct. No trouble codes except Secondary Air... What to do
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I've got a99 F2 50 super duty with a 2000 2001 motor. I got the truck in the beginning of last winter so this is my first summer with it.
When I first got the truck there are injector issues with the truck. Since I fix the issues there has been little problems out of the truck however it's still suffered misfires when Cold but once up to operating temperature it was fine. Yesterday I had to go with a friend before leaving for the trip I checked the oil it was full and appeared normal the trip was about 150 miles. I came home park the truck after everything was done. This morning I came out started the truck everything acted as it should... truck fired right up everything was great went and dropped off my trailer at the yard come back got fuel when I come back out from paying for the fuel the truck took about 30 seconds to fire up I checked my gauges and torque pro and everything seemed normal. So on my way I went.
I drove about 10 miles on the highway to the place I had to be when I got done doing my business I came back out to start my truck and it did the same thing this time however it took longer to start I managed to drive about a mile down the road when I noticed my old pressure gauge flickering and my Oil pressure light on I immediately shut it down and coasted into O'Reilly's parking lot I check the oil in the truck and it was empty according to the stick I added two whole gallon.... With it filled back up down the road I went. So currently the truck is still suffering from a long hard starts it takes 30 to 45 seconds before it all actually fire up once it fires up everything appears to be fine however the truck is slowly smoking a bluish black color... It's never done this before however I've never had this truck in the middle of summer when it's real hot out I don't think this is normal.
The truck doesn't appear to be down on any power actually it, acts as if it might've picked up of some power it is felt real peppy today compared to other days. Also I might note that about a week or two ago I started smelling diesel like either really rich diesel or raw diesel wasn't too bad but I just got whiffs of it for now and then. Now there is a burn oil smell present from the exhaust. Like I was saying earlier when I first got the truck I had to service the injector O-rings... I was told that the miss firing when cold was caused by the Poppitz sticking. The misfire hasn't been present since it got a little warm outside like I was saying it was only when the vehicle is cold.... Just thought I would mention the injector issue not sure if it's relative or not..... My thoughts are it's back to an injector issue or O-rings or possibly did I wipe the motor when it ran out of oil. I am not aware of where the oil went as there is been no leaks or drips.
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I am a longtime 7.3 IDI guy with an 88 F350 crew so i know about diesels. But this is my first electronic diesel. I picked up a 2001 F450 2wd auto 260k miles. it used to be my work's truck but was stitting for a year and now i got it in "non running condition"
I towed it home and got it started by replacing the batteries and using the block heater.
As expected it took a few tries of long cranking to run the first time. runs pretty good and no smoke. what surprised me is it still takes about 5 sec of cranking to restart each time when warm too. any direction you would look with those symptoms? HPOP, IPR?
i am pretty sure the glow plugs all work because mechanics had replaced all that stuff. but i know back when the truck was last used it would still never start cold unless plugged in (even in summer).
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I've been trying to figure out a slow start condition on my 06 F350. What should the starter rpms be when cranking? My scanguage reads 180. Does this sound low? Batteries are new.
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Cranking without fuel is probably never a great idea - but it happens - maybe after repair or when someone runs out of fuel, etc....
Is it any harder (worse than usual) on these Bosch fuel pumps than any other vehicle? I realize that the closer tolerances and the very high pressure might make things a little more fragile in a "no fuel" situation...
This question came from a discussion that I was in (maybe beer was involved) a couple of days ago... Of course we had 4 different opinions... I would like to know the facts - if someone is more qualified then us "redneck mechanics"
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Scangauge reads icp ok. Ipr ok. Fmp voltage is all over the place from 42 down to 2. Flp is also all over the place from 11 down to 2 volts. And no Sync. Load checked batteries well. Voltage is 11.5 down to 10.5 when cranking. Fuel good. No pre warning signs. Parked running good. I have read tones of forums but none with 3 issues. Could it be the relay?? Would a bad ficm show no sync on cranking?? Why is my flp voltage so up and down.
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Finally got everything buttoned up, and truck was going for it's first drive today. Started cranking, and it just barely tries to start, and then nothing until I cycle the key again. Doesn't even give me a full Vroom, Just like a Vro- and then back to cranking.
I've had it started and running a few times, so something has changed. And to add to the fun, something between my tablet, my torque pro app, and my dongle isn't playing nice. Tablet just won't see the dongle. So I get to figure that out too.
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I had new nitto snows put on my truck and low tire pressure light is on.....Checked tire pressure 65 front and 80 back.....Started truck and screen said tms pressure low.....Hit ok and drove around on and off for 2 days now and cant get the light to go out......Is there some way to get the light out or do I have to go to my dealer to have it reset???
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Last week I was driving on the highway and noticed the oil pressure gauge showed no pressure. Limped a half mile to the mother-in-laws and called for a tow. As my truck was pulled onto the flatbed I could see oil all over the bottom of the engine, tranny, rear end, etc. Turned out to be a bad oil pressure sender, which was leaking enough oil to blow the plug off the top of it.
I replaced the sensor, cleaned the engine and under-carriage, checked oil level (which showed no loss of oil) and drove around for a week without an oil pressure gauge while I waited for a new pigtail. Put the pigtail in yesterday and drove it today for the first time since. Gauge was working, got to the bank and it was reading zero pressure again. Limped home and watched the gauge go back up quickly and then back down. This happened twice and was showing pressure when I shut it off. Checked under hood, no oil leaks and plug is still secure.
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My truck gave me low fuel pressure and reduced pressure limp mode at 21,000 miles. The fuel and air filters were changed at 16,000. The dealer said all they found was the fuel filters (at 21,000) were what needed to be changed. Also, why does my truck hum??
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Started today. 2004 with 235k miles. Owned for last 10k miles. Engine was recently studded, has egr delete and ccv bypass. Runs and starts fine. New Ford oil cooler too. Checked for codes. None for misfires, perdel are reading 0.
If it sits, on start up clear exhaust, as it warms, more blue smoke. Smells like oil not diesel.
Researched before asking and found leaking turbo seals can cause this. So we pulled the intercooler tube in front of the engine going to the intake expecting to find oil residue. Nice and dry. Was this the correct one to look at?
When we got the truck we had the dealer do a relative compression test and was within limits, it did need 1 injector that we replaced. What would be the next logical place to look?
Couple more points:
- Just changed oil last week, checked today, it was slightly over full.
- Coolant is fresh and has not changed level since we got it.
- Pulled fuel filter to see if any oil, but it was nice and clean.
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