Ford 6.0L Power Stroke Diesel :: 2005 - Long Crank And No Fire / Startup
May 19, 2016
OK here we go it all started with a long crank and now no fire. I changed cam sensor wiggled wires got to fire , shut off than nothing . Changed wire from cam sensor to about 6" from ecu found small nick in wire. Swapped ecu no good... I am getting my numbers from torque app.
ficm sync = 0
RPm = 172
FLP = 12
fmp =49
Hpop = 1823 max
Ipr = 80.9 max stready at 48
ipr volt =.02 at rest
Also tested fuel pressure at filter 80 psi ( blue spring)
ficm sent to ficm repair, tested good
cam sensor changed , pig tail also
bubble test on fuel filter no thing there
So any thing else to check or am i looking at a harness change?
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So my recently purchased 2005 f350 has an abnormal long crank. I searched all the internet and everything pointed to STC fitting. Well I knew I had some other things I wanted to knock out so I ended up buying an update kit from sinister diesel. It included an updated fitting, new degas cap, updared turbo oil feed and return lines, blue spring update, and "dummy" tubes or something like that.
During the last few days I have removed the turbo, and finally got to the hpop. As I was removing the turbo I thought I might have the updated lines as there was no braided area in the feed tube. Sure enough I pulled the hpop and I have the one piece fitting. So now that I have wasted all this time removing all this stuff for no reason I still don't know what is causing my long crank. I am going to probably install the new fitting and lines anyway but where do I go from here?
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I'm having a long crank cold start issue. It takes about 2 five second cranks before the truck will start up. It just started acting this way yesterday before I fired it up to go to school. After its warm it fires up no problem the rest of the day, just takes a bump of the key.
I don't think it's the GP system as this truck has started at -20 to -25C all winter long unplugged with no issues. From my reading some sources say that it could be a HPOP leak, maybe dummy plugs?
Is there any way for me to do some more diagnosing - places to look or test for? There are no stored codes other than an EGR code due to the delete. Truck is completely stock with atlas 40.
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So how long does one have to crank until it is considered an extended crank? 2 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds.....?
The reason I ask is after all the motor work I did on my truck sometimes she fires up in less than 1 second of cranking and other times it take maybe 2 seconds of cranking. I do not think 2 seconds is considered and extended crank time but was just curious about what is considered extended cranking.
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Had long start issues. Would turn over for 5 seconds - shut off- turn over for 5 seconds - shut off - third try on 4-5 seconds the low oil pressure would come up and HOP would fire injectors and start up.
Was not sure what was up, so look it to Ford. They did leak down test and found seal at the top of injector 4 was leaking. Replaced it and leak moved to other injector. Basically moving to the next weakest seal point. I told them to stop as i did not want to pay, parts, labour and shop time to replace all injectors, etc. They also said power across all injectors was good, but 3 & 7 were not contributing on cold start.
I drove it home and bought parts. New cups and seal for all 8 on fuel rail. New gasket kits for injectors. Plus 2 new injectors to replace 3 and 7.
Replaced injectors in 3 & 7 with the 2 remanufactured i bought. Replaced all cups and seals on fuel rails. So it has new injectors in 3, 4 & 7.
As for the other injectors i took the 5 of them right apart and cleaned them and re-assembled. Took about an hour per injector, took my time to get it right, just FYI. Went pretty good i thought. Seemed pretty straight forward actually.
Now no start - no high oil pressure at all. LOP comes up right away. Scanner shows no HOP no matter how long i crank it.
FICM power good, 47.5 - 48
shows FICM sync - YES
IPR sits at 14% and jumps to 84% on crank - starting, see photos below.
Scanner prior to crank
Scan during crank
Note zero IPC - PSI
Right now.... Got the valve cover off on passenger side. Cannot see oil squirting out the sides of any injectors, but line of sight is limited. Maybe need a small mirror to see in there. LOP comes up better than it has in years, but no HOP now. Before rebuild it seemed i had good HOP but low LOP.
I drove it home from Ford and into my garage, so i do not believe the HPOP crapped out sitting in the garage, so i am ruling that out as a fail, at this time.
Dummy plugs were replaced 5 years ago and o-rings looked decent.
Pulled the small plug screw at the top of the fuel rail. Cranked it until oil came out, bleeding air. then replaced the screw plug. Have not done that on drivers sideyet. Will try that tomorrow. However, think this is more than an air issue, as i have cranked it over plenty, unless i just have that much air.
Going to pull the valve cover on the Driver's side tomorrow. Then will have both covers off at same time to view all.
Noted that if i put compressed air into the screw hole on top of the fuel rail, i can hear air coming out from below the fuel rail. Nothing at the base or around injectors. Does not seem to be at the cups either.
Just wondering.... Buy applying air to those screw plug holes, is that the same as doing the air test at the sensor that pokes up through the valve cover.
With air pressure at these scew plugs on the fuel rail, should this be sealed and be air tight and hear no air leakage. Because it was not air tight on the drivers side before i closed that side up. I am curious about this.
I am assuming i still have a HOP leak. I do not think i have a failed HPOP. How to better chase a HOP leak?
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So, a year ago or so I had the truck die on me, it would start after cranking it a long time and cough/sputter for a few minutes with no power. I thought it seemed like a weak hpop or leaking oring, so I tore it down and put it all back together with a something or other hpop. Now I have a no crank no fuel pump condition, the injectors don't cycle when I turn the key on, I do get relays clicking, but no start, the yellow/blue wire gets the starter to turn over, but no fuel, so couldn't start if it wanted to... I am getting 120 ohms (like 122) on the dlc 6,14 and millivolts, basically nothing between 4 and 14...
I sent the ficm off to get rebuilt and they told me that it was already good (charged me anyway though, ah well...) I wiggled wires around and pulled my ficm plugs apart and pushed the wires in some, didn't seem to move any... What is next? There can't be that many things that cause all three, No Fuel Pump, No Crank and No Injector Buzz, can there?
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2003 6.0 will fire within 2 seconds when cold, literally a "bump the key" and she fires up scenario. Recently and only when the engine is hot I'm getting extended crank times and sometimes it takes several attempts for the truck to start. I replaced the HPOP with an upgraded pump after the factory HPOP went out at 311,000 miles. I know this sounds like a standpipe leak scenario but it doesn't act up all the time, sometimes it fires right up even when its hot. my thinking is a leak is a leak and only gets worse.
My IPR is reading in the 26% range, FICM is steady in the 47.5 to 48 volt range and at idle 585 to 600 psi on the ICP with a good FICM sync. I'm going to to use my scan gauge and see if I can catch an extended crank scenario to see if the ICP is reaching 500 psi but is there somewhere else I should be looking? FICM relays possibly? I've noticed when i turn the key on I'll hear the fuel pump,vacuum pump but the clicking sound is very brief or nonexistent (not sure what the clicking noise is from I assumed glow plugs but its absence is noticed)...
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I have a 2006 F350. I have long crank times. No Codes. I have Autoenginuity with Enhanced Codes and everything shows fine. I replaces standpipe and dummy plugs. Glow Plugs and harness. I was hoping it not be the STC but I needed to do oil cooler so wanted to eliminate STC. Got truck apart and the STC Fitting is newer style so I'm kinda bummed out. Not sure if I'm missing something and as far as I have it torn down is there anyway to test what could be causing the problem? Or just put it back together and keep my fingers crossed that whoever put the new STC fitting in screwed it up. I'm beginning to not like my truck.
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Long crank to start hot and cold. Acts like missing when its cold tho and when it warms up it runs ok but it will set code weafher warm or cold and u can turn it out with scan tool and drive and it wont come back till restarted again...
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Removed my oil rail to replace standpipes/dummies (04 Wavy rail) and now I have huge crank times to start. This is after the initial Huge crank to get it started. Do I have air in the system, or did I bugger something. I did the whole deal very careful. I lifted the rail up very carefully, pipes removed. I lined up the rail nipples with the injectors and evenly pressed it back in place, and then inserted my dummies/standpipe. Tightened the rail to 120 inch lbs then the dummies/standpipe to 60 ft lb. I did my son's '06 a month ago with no troubles. (didn't remove rails though). Once running it sounds perfect, turn it off and re-start and it's a long crank (30 seconds or more). I have not monitored ICP/IPR while running, will try that today.
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6.0 has had dummy plugs and stand pipes replaced and still has a long crank when cold. The kicker is that it doesn't happen when the truck is parked nose up in the driveway. It only happens if the truck is level or back into the driveway. I suspect it's that the HPOP is losing prime from somewhere.
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The past couple of cold starts (not real cold mornings though) I have experienced long crank time to start. Once started she starts normally. No time to read but I'm getting a little worried that I'll get stuck somewhere. I'll check back with my phone when I get into an area with cel service.
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I need to get my oil cooler replaced but that's besides the fact. I drove it on a little trip the other night ran fine. Then went to start it after i was done with what i was doing turned it over didn't start the first time. Cycled the key and cranked it again. Started up drove it back home on the high way no spitting or sputters got off the high way it started idling like crap and shaking as i accelerated but made it home. Let it sit over night and day (was at work) got home to start it and it fired up no problem but still idled funny.
Revved it a couple times and it seemed to clear up so i took it around the block. Floored it and it ran like it was suppose to then go to the other side of the block floored it again and it had no power and sounded like it was running on 4 cylinders. Pulled it back in the driveway idled weird and cleared up again went down the street and floored it ran like a scaled ape and then just died. tried cranking it over and nothing finally got it to start after holding the ignition on ran and then died again. Got it pushed home and decided to fire again after a VERY long crank and it idled for a couple minutes very horrible and died on its own and hasn't started since.
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My 06 currently has 296k miles. 3 years ago I put a lot into her. Dummy plugs, stand pipes, STC, hg,studs, oil cooler, bpd egr cooler. Cleaned spool valves and fresh o rings in injectors. (Alliant) plus a lot more that I can't remember. Ran very very well after all that.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Driving down road and truck died as I let off pedal to slow down for turn onto my road. Took about 7-8 tries to get started back up. Icp was reading in the 300's until it finally started. Made it home. Shut it off. And started right back up.
Few days later truck died again same way. Let off to make a turn. Several attempts to restart icp was in the 300's again. Once it started building 420ish it sounded like it was firing a few injectors and slowly started running. The next time it happened the same way but when I got it back running I eased to my inlaws like less than a mile. When I got to their house and pulled in and went to back up to turn around the display on dash said low oil pressure and started missing a little. So once I got home started researching.
A few days ago I pulled out the low pressure oil regulator to check it out. It was clean but did have some mild scaring. I used some fine scotch rite and smooth it out a a little. It moved freely in the bore so I put it back together. Then pulled the oil filter cap off to check the little black valve. I noticed the filter was not dripping with oil like normally when I change the oil. And yes it's motor craft filter and cap. It checked out ok. Press it down and turned engine over and it filled and held. Let off of it and it drained.
Next I air checked the high pressure side. Applied air and waited until I could hear the air (IPR still open) then closed the IPR. Couldn't hear any leaks. Just a very very minor his and couldn't pin point where. So I went ahead and went to dealer and got new stand pipes and plugs. And ordered new print set for injectors. Pulled injectors and didn't see any smoking guns. Replaced prongs, stand pipe and dummy plugs and put it all back together. Cleaned the injector cups and hold down bolt holes. Torqued injectors to spec.
Got it all done and rotate motor by wire next to heater blower to assist prime system. Tried to start it up and it took two tries but fired right up and sounded smooth as hell. After it idled a few minutes I saw a haze from exhaust. It smelt just like fuel. A few minutes later started idle a little rough. Gave it some go pedel and it was rougher at about 1600-1800rpms and couldn't feel it above 2k. Got my laptop out with AE and done balance test. Did not show anything. No codes either.
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As the title says I am suddenly having a long crank when starting and low oil pressure when when warm (above approximately 100 degrees). IPR goes to 85% when cranking. Stored codes were P2290 and P2291. Other symptoms are low power and what sounds like a power steering pump with low oil whine and low power. (It is not power steering related however, I checked.) I pulled the oil filter and cranked engine and filter bowl filled in less than 10 seconds.
Oil did have a fair bit of air bubbles. Oil has 5000 miles and is Motorcraft 10w30 diesel. I have not added any since the last change. I do not have the new style pump so it's not the STC fitting. What my issue is? I do have AE if any other info is required. Particulars are in sig. The searches I have done combined with the mileage I have lead me to either the low pressure pump is failing, or the high pressure pump has lost the ball bearing out of the side.
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I have a 6 liter 2005 e350 diesel that starts great when cold and runs well all the time but after it warms up it just cranks but won't fire up. But if i shoot ether into the intake it will start. It doesn't show any failure codes.
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2005 w/ 188,000 miles, A/T. Zero driveability issues. Torque Pro shows VGT % changing as expected, but I think that's just a commanded %, not a measured %.
So for the last month or so, every time I start my truck, I hear a noise about 3-4 seconds later that lasts about half a second. It sounds like a bottle rocket shooting up into the air (that whistle/scream sound). It happens whether I'm in my 55'F garage with the block heater plugged for a few hours (coolant temp 80-100F), or if it's sitting in the parking lot at work at 20'F all day.
I'm guessing the turbo needs to be cleaned (unison ring sticking?) but want to just get a few quick opinions if that's the right direction to go.
I found there's a $60 Ford brand cleaning kit with some new seals and the 3M sanding discs, so I think I'd do that. Plus, I read there's a new/updated turbo oil drain tube I should install while its apart.
So the big questions I have are: is it likely I need a turbo cleaning, and what else should I do at the same time? Oil drain update? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
And because this thread is worthless without a pic, here I am leading the charge to Rausch Creek last summer!
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I've been having issue with my truck lacking boost over the past month or so. The psi levels are normal in the morning when I start it up cold, the problem almost always occurs at start-up when the truck is somewhat warm and has been sitting for an hour or more after use. I've had boost levels at idle from -0.14psi to -0.56psi and as low as -1.2psi when driving as the problem is occurring, but it eventually kicks on and goes to normal levels after several minutes of driving. After originally taking the truck to a local diesel mechanic I was told it had EGR codes and they recommended installing an SCT tuner and cleaning the EGR valve to solve the problem. I had them install an SCT 5015 tuner and clean the valve but I've still been having the problems with boost.
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05, 170k miles. Studded and egr delete but I don't have paperwork on either. Got a pretty good deal on the truck but I have a few questions..
It runs and starts great, warm and cold, with only a little blue smoke on cold startup. but every now and then when idling (say at a stoplight) the engine gets noticeably rougher, not terrible. No smoke. Goes away after 5-10 seconds.
When I remove the oil cap, there is a "puffing" blow by, not constant, and its not enough to blow the cap off if I set it on backwards. Just puffing.
This may be related, but I pulled the starter wire off the drivers side and touched it to the battery to hear how it cranks, and there is a noticeable blip in the cranking, its not 100% smooth.
Don't think I am losing any coolant. Runs great, getting 15MPG. No CEL. I went and had a relative comp. check done, cylinder 7 is the problem. We both are leaning toward there being a valve problem So I pulled the valve cover, now I have a few questions.
1. When I crank the engine over without starting, I can hear a "pfft....pfft....pfft" chug of air every revolution. I pulled the cover to see if I had a obvious rocker problem, but can't see anything because the oil rail is in the way. I'm guessing this air puff is sign of a valve problem?
2. When the truck is running, there is a small, steady stream of oil running down the rail and dripping onto the valve cover mating surface of the head, I think it was at every injector, definitely 2 of them. Was getting dark, so hard to see. Is this normal, or do I have a leak? Truck has updated dummy plugs.
My next step is probably going to be pull the rail, see if there is a obvious problem, then pull the head. And tips for me? Planning on having the HVAC evacuated then pulling the airbox.
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Brother in law company 6.0 died on him in his driveway after a night of plowing
It stalled out, his boss sent out a "tech" and he said it doesn't have "nearly enough" oil pressure
Now I want to further diagnose the truck myself with my scan gauge II but haven't used it for that......yet......
What should I check for IPR pressure psi or %?
I know I can get ICP pressure in PSI on my SCT x4 not sure about the Scan Gauge......
I assume a blown IPR or failed STC fitting......
Truck is a 2005..... I can figure out the scan gauge I just need to know what to look for for an idea of a blown IPR or STC or ICP.
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05 6.0 will only start if I cycle the glow plugs, crank 3 seconds shut off glow again then it starts immediately. If I try to glow 2 cycles with out cranking it won't start either. When he truck is hot it seams to start easier. I have new batteries new alternator running 5-40 synth. New glow plug control module. It does it hot or cold weather.
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